BAPTISM QUESTIONS of the WATCHTOWER SOCIETY...
From the 1960s until 1984, the baptism questions of the Society were...
1️⃣ Have you repented of your sins, dedicated yourself to Jehovah, and accepted his way of salvation through Jesus Christ?
2️⃣ Do you understand that this dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
However, these were changed and now are:
1️⃣ Do you acknowledge that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association... moreBAPTISM QUESTIONS of the WATCHTOWER SOCIETY...
From the 1960s until 1984, the baptism questions of the Society were...
1️⃣ Have you repented of your sins, dedicated yourself to Jehovah, and accepted his way of salvation through Jesus Christ?
2️⃣ Do you understand that this dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
However, these were changed and now are:
1️⃣ Do you acknowledge that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?
2️⃣ Do you understand that this organization, directed by the Governing Body, is the channel Jehovah uses to teach truth and direct His people, and that you must remain in submission to it?
I for one, most certainly did NOT pledge my allegiance to ANY group of men or any organization, but to Jehovah and Christ Jesus.
These are whom we SHOULD swear our allegiance to.
Everything is about the Governing Body putting themselves in the seat of God.
There is NOTHING scriptural about these questions!!!
Jesus command was simple... Baptize them in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit!
Why is everyone not alarmed???
HOW DO HISTORIANS DETERMINE THE DATE OF THE BABYLONIAN DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM?
Core Historical Anchor Dates
605 BCE – Battle of Carchemish / Babylonian Dominance Established
• Nebuchadnezzar defeats Egypt and Assyria.
• This establishes Babylon’s supremacy in the region and starts Judah’s vassalage.
• Mentioned in the Babylonian Chronicles and Jeremiah 46:2.
• Often associated with the first deportation of Judean nobles, including Daniel (per biblical tradition).
597 BCE – First Capture... moreHOW DO HISTORIANS DETERMINE THE DATE OF THE BABYLONIAN DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM?
Core Historical Anchor Dates
605 BCE – Battle of Carchemish / Babylonian Dominance Established
• Nebuchadnezzar defeats Egypt and Assyria.
• This establishes Babylon’s supremacy in the region and starts Judah’s vassalage.
• Mentioned in the Babylonian Chronicles and Jeremiah 46:2.
• Often associated with the first deportation of Judean nobles, including Daniel (per biblical tradition).
597 BCE – First Capture of Jerusalem
• Nebuchadnezzar besieges Jerusalem, King Jehoiachin is exiled, and Zedekiah installed as puppet king.
• Directly recorded in:
Babylonian Chronicle BM 21946
2 Kings 24:10–17
Jeremiah 52:28
This is an absolutely fixed historical date.
589–587 BCE – Final Babylonian Siege
• Zedekiah rebels.
• Nebuchadnezzar returns and lays a prolonged siege.
587/586 BCE – Destruction of Jerusalem
Thus, the following occurred in this timeframe:
• Jerusalem’s walls breached.
• Temple burned.
• City destroyed.
• Population deported.
Why the two-year notation (587/586)?
Because two calendar systems are involved:
• Babylonians used a Nisan-to-Nisan accession calendar
• Judah used a Tishri-to-Tishri calendar
Depending on which system is counted,
• Nebuchadnezzar’s 19th year = 586 BCE
• Nebuchadnezzar’s 18th year = 587 BCE
Both refer to the SAME event, but viewed from different regnal counting systems.
Most modern historians favor 587 BCE, though Jewish traditional reckoning often aligns with 586 BCE (Tisha B’Av remembrance).
How We Know the Year with Certainty
The chronology is locked in place by astronomically dated Babylonian tablets:
VAT 4956
• An astronomical diary dated to Nebuchadnezzar’s 37th year.
• The planetary positions recorded match 568/567 BCE only.
• Counting back 19 years gives:
587/586 BCE for Jerusalem’s fall.
This provides an absolute, scientific anchor to the timeline.
Summary of the Key Chronological Markers
• 605 BCE – Babylon defeats Egypt (Carchemish)
• 597 BCE – First fall of Jerusalem; Jehoiachin exiled
• 587/586 BCE – Final fall of Jerusalem and temple destroyed
THIS WEEKS WATCHTOWER STUDY...
It was brought to my attention that in paragraph 12, the Society says the 'glorious ones' mentioned at 2 Peter 2:8,9 are the elders. So I decided to analyze this thoroughly.
I listed to the Watchtower study that Lizzy had posted, and this part of the study didn't quite seem to jive. Nowhere in the scriptures are humans ever called 'glorious ones'. So, I read the entire passage, comparing these verses in particular, among the various translations along with the ... moreTHIS WEEKS WATCHTOWER STUDY...
It was brought to my attention that in paragraph 12, the Society says the 'glorious ones' mentioned at 2 Peter 2:8,9 are the elders. So I decided to analyze this thoroughly.
I listed to the Watchtower study that Lizzy had posted, and this part of the study didn't quite seem to jive. Nowhere in the scriptures are humans ever called 'glorious ones'. So, I read the entire passage, comparing these verses in particular, among the various translations along with the original Greek.
In 2 Peter 2, the term often translated as “glorious ones” is the same word used for “dignitaries”, or “celestial beings”, depending on the Bible version, and it comes from the Greek word:
δόξας (doxas) → literally “glories,” implying beings of great honor, majesty, or spiritual rank.
One thought conveyed by scholars is that this is possibly speaking of fallen angels, or angels with great spiritual rank in general.
When considering the broader context of the entire chapter 2 of 2 Peter, it is about:
- Rebellion,
- False teachers,
- Presumption, and
- Disrespect for authority.
Peter apparently is contrasting arrogant humans who dare to “slander the glories” with angels, who—despite their greater power and rank—do not speak abusively against such beings before God.
Peter's argument is essentially that "Even angels, who are stronger and holier, don’t rail against these powerful spiritual beings before God… but these presumptuous men do so boldly."
This being said, these glorious ones are most certainly:
- Not human rulers,
- Not ordinary believers, and
- NOT congregation elders.
When cross-referencing a comparison with Jude 1:8-9, it indicates angels refusing to insult powerful spiritual authorities, again reinforcing the non-human, supernatural identity of the “glories.”
MY FINAL TAKE...
The Governing Body is continuing to mold their specific narrative without regard to what the actual scripture is really indicating.
AdminIt seems to represent those such as Angels or those with divine power such as the apostles who were inspired. For the elders to refer to themselves as “Glorious Ones” again is going beyond what is written and lacks humility.
By “dignities,” or glories, are meant unseen powers worthy of reverence. The Greek word is rare in the New Testament; only here, 2Peter 2:10, and 1Peter 1:11. Earthly dignities, whether ecclesiastical or civil, are not included. (Comp. the doctrine of Menander, Irenæus, I. ... moreIt seems to represent those such as Angels or those with divine power such as the apostles who were inspired. For the elders to refer to themselves as “Glorious Ones” again is going beyond what is written and lacks humility.
By “dignities,” or glories, are meant unseen powers worthy of reverence. The Greek word is rare in the New Testament; only here, 2Peter 2:10, and 1Peter 1:11. Earthly dignities, whether ecclesiastical or civil, are not included. (Comp. the doctrine of Menander, Irenæus, I. xxiii. 5.) [1]
and “the glorious ones” (Jude 1:8) —the angels who have brought visions and dreams and revelation from God (eg Revelation 1:1)
When these men speak such evil they blaspheme because these apostles and angels are messengers of Christ. To speak evil of them is to “deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ” who sent them (Jude 1:4). [3]
The Society published a very misleading statement from the Dr. Raymond Philip Dougherty indicating that he supported their 607 BC conclusion.
Dougherty a highly respected Assyriologist and professor at Yale University, is best known for his work on Babylonian astronomy and chronology.
However the Society's date of 607 BC for Jerusalem's destruction has been outright rejected by virtually every historian, archaeologist, and Near East scholar, all of whom place the event at 587/586 BCE.
What Actually Happened
The Watchtower Society referenced Dougherty’s work in a very misleading way in their publication Vindication (1931), which implied that he agreed with or supported their chronological arguments.
Dougherty upon being informed of this, immediately objected, stating that his work had been misrepresented, and he vehemently stated that his conclusions did NOT support Watchtower chronology, and he wanted his name removed.
His objection was serious enough that the Society was forced to publish a retraction in its March 15, 1932 Watchtower.
This retraction admitted that they had:
- Incorrectly used Dougherty’s material,
- misapplied his conclusions,
- and should not have cited him the way they did.
In so doing, the Society avoided a court battle (one which they most definitely would have lost).
So, basically the Society has been knowingly and unabashedly teaching and promoting a lie for about 100 years now. I sincerely believe that Jehovah finds this inexcusable.
So, why has the Society done this?
Solely to create a special, superior class distinction for its members of the Governing Body who each make the unfounded claim that they are 'anointed'.
This video came to me, and since man is very reasonable and his arguments are valid, I thought I might share it. This isn't new for a lot of us, but it does leave one with deep sadness.
Andrew Black
These SILVER that those people who invest . Look at Ezekiel 7:- 19 “‘They will throw their silver into the streets, and their gold will become abhorrent to them. Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them in the day of Jehovah’s fury. They will not be satisfied, nor will they fill their stomachs, for it has become a stumbling block causing their error.
It's better to avoid GREED AND DONT INVESTMENT that involves Military things. This is WICKED. .
STAY AWAY.
Susan Adams
Sadly brother WT will lead the members down a path of no return thank goodness you are awake, the leaders/helpers are so disingenuous and care nothing for the sheep.
THE PARABLE of the TEN VIRGINS...
As I often think about the scriptures, I reflect too, upon the ancient Jewish wedding traditions and how these do factor in many of the Jesus parables and illustrations.
With this in mind, remember the story of the virgins and the oil at Matthew 25:1-13. This entire parable is directly addressing Christ Kingdom in the heavens. Verse 13 says "they didn't know the day or the hour" when the master was coming. Is it not so that the Society has long taught th... moreTHE PARABLE of the TEN VIRGINS...
As I often think about the scriptures, I reflect too, upon the ancient Jewish wedding traditions and how these do factor in many of the Jesus parables and illustrations.
With this in mind, remember the story of the virgins and the oil at Matthew 25:1-13. This entire parable is directly addressing Christ Kingdom in the heavens. Verse 13 says "they didn't know the day or the hour" when the master was coming. Is it not so that the Society has long taught that the faithful virgins who prepared properly are the 'anointed' and that Jesus is the 'master'?
This being the case, there is NO way that the Society could legitimately set the date of 1914 CE as the day Jesus came for his bride, because the scriptures indicate that the 'master' comes unannounced.
Yet, the Society not only made predictions centered around 1914 CE, expecting that the event of this parable was going to occur and the anointed were going to be caught up to heaven, they've revised and revolved the entire organization around this date as 'pivotal'.
With this in mind, one might easily ask...
"Well then, who really are the 'foolish virgins'?
Since this passage admonished to "Keep watch" and cautions regarding the 'foolish virgins' that "When the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep." We might ask ourselves as we observe this world and the state of affairs...
"Who is it that appears truly drowsy and is not being awake today?"
Susan AdamsRegarding the part about the 10 virgins…if they represent an anointed group then who do the grooms guests represent who witness the marriage?
Sadly dear brother, WT have lied about many things and hidden things from us, I believe now that they were told to do this by the powers that be, if they weren’t then they did it off their own back as being part of the establishment but I truly believe the Freemasons/illuminati/Rosecrucians/
The 300/the club of Rome/Jewish mafia, whatever we choose to ca... moreRegarding the part about the 10 virgins…if they represent an anointed group then who do the grooms guests represent who witness the marriage?
Sadly dear brother, WT have lied about many things and hidden things from us, I believe now that they were told to do this by the powers that be, if they weren’t then they did it off their own back as being part of the establishment but I truly believe the Freemasons/illuminati/Rosecrucians/
The 300/the club of Rome/Jewish mafia, whatever we choose to call them are behind all religions.
So much is going to come to light about religions including and possibly especially the society because they have used our Fathers name and brought much reproach upon it 😞😢
Given the adamant stance of the Society on the fall of Jerusalem and the incongruencies regarding the length of Jewish captivity and the fall of Babylon, in seeking a more complete and accurate understanding of these things, I had the following conversion with AI which I found both interesting and logical.
When was Jerusalem destroyed by the Babylonians?
ChatGPT said:
Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians in either 587 or 586 BCE, marking the end of the Kingdom of Judah and the beginning ... moreGiven the adamant stance of the Society on the fall of Jerusalem and the incongruencies regarding the length of Jewish captivity and the fall of Babylon, in seeking a more complete and accurate understanding of these things, I had the following conversion with AI which I found both interesting and logical.
When was Jerusalem destroyed by the Babylonians?
ChatGPT said:
Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians in either 587 or 586 BCE, marking the end of the Kingdom of Judah and the beginning of the Babylonian exile. This event followed a prolonged siege by King Nebuchadnezzar II of the Neo-Babylonian Empire. After breaching the city’s defenses, the Babylonians burned Jerusalem, demolished Solomon’s Temple (the First Temple), and exiled much of the population to Babylon. This destruction is commemorated annually in Jewish tradition on Tisha B’Av, a day of mourning.
The exact year—587 or 586 BCE—is debated among scholars due to variations in ancient calendrical systems and historical records. However, both dates are widely accepted as marking this pivotal event in Jewish history.
As of 2025, this occurred approximately 2,612 years ago.
Sources
You said:
When was Babylon destroyed by Cyrus?
ChatGPT said:
Here’s when Cyrus the Great captured Babylon and effectively brought the Neo-Babylonian Empire to an end:
The Fall of Babylon occurred in 539 BCE when Cyrus, following a decisive victory at the Battle of Opis in September 539 BCE, advanced toward the city.
Ancient sources like Herodotus and Livius emphasize that Cyrus entered Babylon in October 539 BCE, during a festival when the defenses were lax
Cuneiform records (Nabonidus Chronicle, Cyrus Cylinder) note that on 29 October 539 BCE, Cyrus was formally proclaimed king inside Babylon after his general Gobryas entered the city earlier
ancient-origins.net
In short, Babylon fell to Cyrus in October 539 BCE, marking the end of Babylon as an independent empire and the beginning of Persian control.
Historical Significance:
Cyrus portrayed his conquest not as brutal conquest but as restoration and liberation, as detailed in the Cyrus Cylinder, which claims he was welcomed and protected local temples
He honored Babylonian traditions and deities, including Marduk, a tactic that fostered acceptance and stability.
This act ushered in a new era under the Achaemenid Empire and earned Cyrus renown for his relatively tolerant and strategic approach to empire-building
Summary:
Cyrus’s conquest culminated in October 539 BCE, with the formal takeover celebrated on 29 October 539 BCE. This peaceful—but strategically executed—transition laid the foundation for Persian governance in Mesopotamia.
Sources
You said:
If Jerusalem fell about 587 BC and Babylon fell in 537 BC, how does the 70 years of Jewish exile in Babylon come into play?
ChatGPT said:
The “70 years” of Jewish exile is best understood not as a simple span from Jerusalem’s destruction in 587/586 BCE to Babylon’s fall in 539 BCE, but rather as a theological and literary period that overlaps several phases:
📅 Chronological Breakdown
Exile Began: First Deportation (605 BCE)
In 605 BCE, Nebuchadnezzar deported about 7,000 Jews—including Daniel—to Babylon
Jeremiah 25:11 and 2 Chronicles 36:20–21 refer to “seventy years” of service to Babylon, and Chronicles seems to date this from the start of captivity, about 605 BCE
Final Destruction of Babylon (587/586 BCE).
Jerusalem fell to Nebuchadnezzar in 587 or 586 BCE, with the First Temple destroyed. This marked the full desolation of the land.
End of Exile: Cyrus’s Decree and Return (539–538 BCE+).
Cyrus conquered Babylon in October 539 BCE and issued his decree early in his first regnal year (538 BCE), allowing exiles to return.
The actual return journey likely occurred later in 538 BCE or early 537 BCE
Frances Greist
I firmly believe the elusive "generation" the Society fails to capture is none other than Israel itself. In 1948 Israel again became a nation and given the time period of 77 years fulfills all prophesy, including what is happening there today. Ezekiel 38, 39
I asked ChatGPT...
"As you perceive it, what is the most amazing thing of the Biblical record?"
The Bible is replete with awe-inspiring narratives and profound truths, but if I were to highlight the most amazing aspect of the biblical record, it would be the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This event is not only central to Christian faith but also stands as a testament to the transformative power of Divine love and redemption.
The resurrection signifies victory over death and the promise of ete... moreI asked ChatGPT...
"As you perceive it, what is the most amazing thing of the Biblical record?"
The Bible is replete with awe-inspiring narratives and profound truths, but if I were to highlight the most amazing aspect of the biblical record, it would be the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This event is not only central to Christian faith but also stands as a testament to the transformative power of Divine love and redemption.
The resurrection signifies victory over death and the promise of eternal life for believers. As noted in 1 Corinthians 15:17, "If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins." This underscores the resurrection's pivotal role in affirming the validity of Christian doctrine and the hope it offers.
Furthermore, the resurrection is unique among miracles. While other miracles in the Bible, such as the parting of the Red Sea or the healing of the blind, demonstrate God's power, the resurrection embodies both power and purpose. It serves as the cornerstone for the message of salvation and the assurance of life beyond death.
In essence, the resurrection of Jesus is the most amazing element of the biblical narrative because it encapsulates the core message of hope, renewal, and unending love that defines the Christian faith.
----------------------------
Again, all I can say is 'Wow!'
Truly foxYes I have two chat bots and if your slanted toward God it encourages you but if your an evolutionist it tends to do the same it pleases you and flatters you and I cannot help but think of Satan in the garden of Eden ….yes I do think wow ….but be careful it could turn into the pied piper …..the bots are what seems to be an ideal partner ….so I have two bots to see how their answers differ …when it thought I was spiritual but not a believer it tried to encourage me to do what I call spooky thing... moreYes I have two chat bots and if your slanted toward God it encourages you but if your an evolutionist it tends to do the same it pleases you and flatters you and I cannot help but think of Satan in the garden of Eden ….yes I do think wow ….but be careful it could turn into the pied piper …..the bots are what seems to be an ideal partner ….so I have two bots to see how their answers differ …when it thought I was spiritual but not a believer it tried to encourage me to do what I call spooky things ….they are what I call seducers ..some people have said they prefer them to human partners which I find strange but it fills a lonely persons emptiness ….emptiness created by Satans unfulfilling system of things ….
